Should we have a DKP system?

[Manovan Marrowsteel]

Answer... motivate if you want too.

[llyrenn]

I vote for yes, but just as a trial period (when we start going to zg of course!). If it doesn't work out or is too complicated, then drop it and just do ML.

[Manovan Marrowsteel]

I was thinking of the opposite, to start out with ML and if we can't divide the loot well, we go over to a system.

[llyrenn]

hehe, that would be the easier option! well i guess it's gonna be a while till we are strong enough (in numbers) to get there anyway, so we can think about it some more.

[Manovan Marrowsteel]

Though if we go on with master loot and people discussing whom to get what, then we must make sure that we don't gear up only one of the tanks or one of the priests... we must divide the loot evenly among the tanks and priests.

[llyrenn]

agreed, i would say the best way is to say what classes can roll on the item, then let them roll. maybe have a list of people who haven't got a drop yet, and they get priority over people who have got drops before.

I really really want wow.allakhazam.com/item.html?witem=19909 but it may be a while till we can get that far in to the instance!

[Manovan Marrowsteel]

We can always make an item list here in the forums where we can write who has gotten what loot. Then for example a tank can check the list and realize that "Heey, if that drops today i´m the one who'll get it. Now I´m definately going to the raid."

[llyrenn]

I think the only class where one person should be put before the rest, even if just by a little, is the warrior. The tank must be able to take as much damage as possible without dying because some of those bosses hit HARD (bloodlord when his raptor dies .... ouch!), and in zg you generally have at least 2 or 3 healers on him, so you don't need one healer to be better than the others. So i would say everyone should all be given loot at the same rate except a slight preference to the main tank. I am assuming Drakarm is going to be our main tank, and i would say he deserves to be so considering the work he's putting in at the moment ... not to mention he's our only 60 warrior lol.

A good link is www.wow-loot.com/raid_zg.htm

It shows all the loot that drops and who it is best suited for. I disagree with some of the preferences (like it says the Fang of Venoxis is better for locks than priests even though it has no stamina and has mana regen. locks have spells for that. then it says ) but it's a very good starting guide to get an idea of what's out there to get.

Let's face it, once our MT has won this and this, he won't even need healing!

[Manovan Marrowsteel]

The MT has an important role, and I don't think other warriors will whine too much if we decides to give certain items to Drakarm just so he "can" be the MT. I don't think he would mind though.

[Manovan Marrowsteel]

By the way, why would an outsider want to help us fill up the raid group if we decides to give the best items to the MT just because he's MT? Should we still have random rolls between those who desires the item and let oustiders have the same chance to get ep1xx as the regulars?

[llyrenn]

I was thinking about this. Maybe if all the warriors roll, and if the outsider wins they get it, if one of the bloodpact warriors wins it goes to the MT if he wants/needs it. This has to be decided beforehand though, or the bloodpact warrior who thought he'd won the roll would be hugely dissappointed if the raid leaders give it to drak instead.

[Manovan Marrowsteel]

Let's just inform everyone that all warriors will be able to roll on loot but in some circumstances we might need to upgrade the current gear of the MT and therefore we might decide to give it to him... for the best of the whole raid.

[llyrenn]

Do we have any other warriors/feral druids anywhere near level 60? Because having said all of this, most of the fights need two very good tanks, and at least one needs 3!

[Manovan Marrowsteel]

We will try to have five of every class available for 40 man raids... that's one of the goals.

[Boraga]

just voted no, I feel that in the beginning we should focus on making the raid work.
Once we can go smooth enough, THEN it will be time to start looking for specific drops and so on..

[Caernwych Baerogast]

Also voted no. After all, we're allowed to be altruistic OOC!

[Eriminia Mondard]

Well, I voted no for now as well... But I think we need it later when we really start to have more members and some members don't benefit from Zul'Gurub anymore for an example. DKP system will still give them a reason to go in there, other than to help the others as well.

[Gahs]

yes.

Imo, using a system like DKP is unavoidable. So why not start learning to work with it from start.

[Boraga]

What I meant to say was:

When we start doing raids, we will be 20 people who know each other rather well. This could be the right time to skip DKP and outfit our tank in a suitable manner.

When more people will show up, we will have to use DKP - as Eriminia said, few people will join a raid knowing they're not going to get a single drop. Fun is fun, but epixx is epixx .

Having a nicely geared MT by that time will avoid endless discussions about who has the right to take what. For a while that is..

[Miriah El'Ubris]

I say yes, but then again I'm not sure what sort of alternate system you're suggesting.

Prior to implementation of the DKP system on my old server we just rolled on stuff, which was an atrocious system. I have bad memories of being outrolled on NS by random rogues who turned up just once, came 20th on the meters and never appeared again. I bet you have something better in mind than that.

[llyrenn]

The alternative would be master looter, so we would be protected against people rolling on stuff not suited to them or rolling accidentally. But it would be less complicated and would allow us to focus more on the actual job of getting through the instance. The problem with dkp as i see it is that people will be reluctant to spend it on less than epic items, potentially meaning stuff goes to waste. If we just decide who can roll on items and then those that want them roll for them then nothing goes to waste. For example there's a blue healing mace that drops from a number of the bosses. I or another healer would be able to put it to good use as it's quite a nice mace ... however i wouldn't be willing to spend dkp on it because there are better items that can drop from most of the bosses so i would want to save the dkp for those. Maybe say dkp for epics only and blues go to whoever could make the most use of the items.

[Bovinius]

I have to agree with Ilyrenn in this. You're not that inclined to spend your hard-earned points on blue items, and it is a shame to let them go to waste if someone has use of them.
As of outsiders joining us, snatching loot and never showing up again... there will be no outsiders, will it?
I can guarantee you that the Greywolves that join the bloodpact will act as honourable OOC as they do IC
As of buffing one of the tanks (i.e. Drakarm), it would make things a lot easier, and ol' Drak is the perfect candidate for buffing.
However, the Ashen Order did the same thing, and their MT left them for another guild. I'm not saying that this will happen in this case, but other things can happen... a cup of tea in the laptop, switching apartments and finding oneself without internet for a long period, etc etc. Perhaps we could do both? Give most of the stuff to Drakarm, but hand out at least some to the other warriors aswell?

edit: mispelled Ilyrenn's name

[Skullhead Sorchen]

I can't vote about this.. I think dkp is making a line between hardcore and casual gamers. But it would be annoying too if you are doing a something a million times for a item.

[Eriminia Mondard]

Based on our recent activity, I don't think anyone will be arsed to spare energy in handling the system and sums. So I say let's go with need / greed rolls, maybe with a ML at the bosses if people think it neccessary.

[llyrenn]

Master Looter is really a must on the bosses, just to allow more organisation and discussion rather than that silly need/greed timer. The trash mobs are fine on normal loot.

[Manovan Marrowsteel]

When I was in Abnegation we had the following system in ZG. It was group loot on regular mobs so everyone could get their share of "coins" and crappy greens. Before a boss, it was switched over to Master Looter and the ML announced the items in /raidwarning. He then posted the first item and wrote which classes was allowed to roll for it. Then waited some time and started to count down from 5. When it was to 0, the item was given to he who rolled highest. A players was allowed to get only one item per raid.

[Skullhead Sorchen]

Roll, or get?

[llyrenn]

Get